Sunday, November 14, 2004

Dei Potestas en Terra

Quote Follows: (listening to: Nobuo Uematsu, "Final Fantasy Theme")

"A great rabbi stands teaching in the marketplace. It happens that a husband finds proof that morning of his wife's adultery, and a mob carries her to the marketplace to stone her to death. (There is a familiar version of this story, but a friend of mine... has told me of two other rabbis that faced the same situation. Those are the ones I'm going to tell you.)
The rabbi walks forward and stands beside the woman. Out of respect for him the mob forbears, and waits with the stones heavy in their hands. 'Is there not anyone here,' he says to them, 'who has not desired another man's wife, another woman's husband?'
They murmur and say, 'We all know the desire. But, Rabbi, none of us has acted on it.'
The rabbi says, 'Then kneel down and give thanks that God made you strong.' He takes the woman by the hand and leads her out of the market. Just before he lets her go, he whispers to her, 'Tell the Lord Magistrate who saved his mistress. Then he'll know I am his loyal servant."
So the woman lives, because the community is too corrupt to protect itself from disorder.
Another rabbi, another city. He goes to her and stops the mob, as in the other story, and says, 'Which of you is without sin? Let him cast the first stone.'
The people are abashed, and they forget their unity of purpose in the memory of their own individual sins. Someday, they think, I may be like this woman, and I'll hope for forgiveness and another chance. I should treat her the way I wish to be treated.
As they open their hands and let the stones fall to the ground, the rabbi picks up one of the fallen stones, lifts it high over the woman's head, and throws it straight down with all his might. It crushes her skull and dashes her brains to the cobblestones.
'Nor am I without sin,' he says to the people, 'But if we allow only perfect people to enforce the law, the law will soon be dead, and our city with it.'
So the woman died because her communtiy was too rigid to endure her deviance."
(O.S. Card)

Surely all of us know the origin of this story, and the purest ending to it. The first story presented here shows perhaps, what most would see as an abberration. Corruption in the church. A rabbi protecting his own interests by protecting the favor of those in power. But the second makes an excellent point: Can the teachings of Jesus really truly be applied in today's society? Think of what Jesus taught us: Turn the other cheek. Give to the man who steals your coat your shirt as well. Be meek, and inherit the earth. To provide some context, just in the last week, according to Jesus, I should have found the guy who took my cell phone, and given him my laptop as well. I should have encouraged Vaulted to continue his/her beratement of me on my site to continue, and in fact provided them with a better means to do so. I should not seek to excel at my job, or in my acting, so as to not gather the attention or fame of the rest of the world. Do we know anyone like this in our lives? Someone who seeks not to excel in anything, but instead leads a quiet life of dull mediocrity?
Surely, even Jesus himself fell victim to unintentional star power. He rode into Jerusalem on the highest holy day on a donkey, while hundreds of people threw palm branches down on the road and shouted, "Hosanna! Glory be to God!"

Now, before all you Christian Conservatives get all uppity on me, let me explain. I'm not trying to claim Jesus to be a hypocrite, nor am I saying that Jesus himself sought celebrity status among the people of his time. I'm inviting dialogue: How can the teachings of Jesus be applied to a world (both then AND now) where they seem to be a recipe for disaster?
Are we to understand Jesus as giving us a theory, or a philosophy that should be followed in spirit, rather than in letter?

10 comments:

Ang said...

you know ... your comment makes me mad and i'm not sure why. But you are always telling me how alike we really are in our faiths, and i read this and i really dont think so. I think most definitley jesus' teachings can be used in todays society. and...i'm not as smart or as eloquent with words as you are, and i get confused a lot with deep conversations becuase i get lost in my own thoughts and even more lost with your thoughts, but here's the deal .. we have not wandered so far away from what the world was back that we cant understand what it was that jesus was trying to tell us. sure it's different, sure we are in different times, and sure we use different language now, but the theories and the stories, they are still the same. You can't be so litteral nick. god doesn't litterally want you to turn your cheek so that i can slap it on both sides .. he wants you to use your brain ... the point he was trying to stress was that ... if someone is in need, if someone needs something .. then it is your duty to give that person all you can .. give him both your cheeks, if you will, give him the shirt off your back ... and its sooooo ridiculously hard to DO that...i'll be the first to admit how selfish i am. Its not that we can't do it, its a challenge, and probably more so in today's world than back then, but it certainly doesn't mean it can't be done. It just means the challenge will be a little or a lot bit harder. And i'm not sure i get the whole stoning analogy you used ... i think you'll have to explain it to me a little bit better?
i'm too tired to keep writing. i'll check back.

jeremyorion said...

I'm going to point to some problems I have with your analysis. I'm not sure I want to call them fallacies or inconsistencies or what, but here goes...

First, you assume that when Jesus says to "turn the other cheek" he means you to turn the other cheek so that it may also be slapped. I think you're reading that incorrectly. At the very least you're reading more into it than is said.

I think that what Jesus was trying to say there was to not be quick to retaliation. If someone slaps your cheek, instead of slapping back, be the bigger person. You shouldn't track down your phone theif to give him your laptop, but you also shouldn't steal from him in retaliation. Be better than that man.

Second, you take your theory that Jesus says "let people walk all over you" and turn it into "don't excel at anything" without giving any explanation. Bad Madjai. I'm not sure how you got from "give (Vaulted) better means to (berate you)" to "I should not seek to excel at my job" in the span of a period and a space.

Jesus doesn't want you to live your life in dull mediocrity. Rather, he wants you to be a bigger person in the face of lesser people. He wants you to help others when you can. By doing that, your life is not mediocre. Quite the opposite. Doing those things is exactly, according to Jesus, what makes your life great.

Third, (or fourth or whatever...I lost count) You first say that Jesus stumbled upon unintentional stardom. Then you claim that he sought it out. Jesus, in my opinion, did not seek out stardom. For him and what he was doing, it came with the territory. What spiritual or political radical of our time doesn't inheret some level of fame merely from the stance that he/she takes? This doesn't mean that they seek or even desire that fame.

As far as whether Jesus wished future generations to follow his example to the letter or in spirit, I think that it is the latter. If you believe that Jesus was attempting to set out an example for all time, it is silly to think that he expected times not to change. Jesus was a smart guy, and following his example, or any other biblical moral, to the letter is impossible.

Anyhow, thats my take on that. Off to do some more homework.

jeremyorion said...

Purplecat...

I think you misunderstand the rabbi in the story.

Neither men acted in the name of God. The first wished wordly gains from his protection of the woman. That, to me, is as Madjai said...corruption in the church.

The second, however, seems to have acted in the name of his community. He wished to uphold the law of the land, which at the time called for the stoning of adulterous women. He knew that without law, there is no order. While we may now call his act "murder", at the time it was a just punishment.

No matter how easy it is to do, we cannot retroactively project our social values on to this Rabbi. Someday in the future people will no doubt look back on our "just punishments" like capital punishment (and perhaps even life-imprisonment) and denounce them as wrong. Does that mean that our punishments are wrong? Personal stances on capital punishment aside, our current ideals of justice are as right for us now as that Rabbi's was then (and as future generations' ideals will be in the future).

I do agree with your comment about God desiring us to question, but thats an entirely different post! ;)

jeremyorion said...

Retraction...Nick never said Jesus sought stardom. I read that part wrong. The rest of my post is still relevant. =)

nobody's starling said...

here's my view from the agnostic nosebleed seating of the arena:

if you look at most religions, the foundations are the same. we are taught to love and respect and have compassion for our fellow man. where we cannot find acceptance, we can at least draw on tolerance (here i speak to those who commit hate crimes against individuals who are apprently "wrong" in their actions or belifes. think: matthew shepard).
though we cannot know reasons behind everything in the world, i believe whole-heartedly that things do happen for a reason; we are all connected to each other, to nature, and to some form of higher being, by an energy that flows through us all. furthermore, we are connected to each other through our personal struggles as humans.

that considered: someone stole your cell phone, my friend. he did something wrong--infringed on your freedom and your life--but what can you do at this point? this does not mean that you hunt him down and kick him in the face; nor do you hunt him down to give him your laptop. this does mean, however, that you get over it and go on with your life. shit happens. (at least he stole a cell phone and not your dog)

(by the way, mr. "i flit around between atheist and agnostic" jeremy, when did you become the definitive voice on Jesus?)

jeremyorion said...

"Non-Christian Monotheist" thank you very much. (That's kind of agnostic isn't it...)

I'm not claiming to be difinitive, just espousing my personal thoughts on the whole thing. I do think that its good to have a non-Christian perspective on Jesus because I look on Jesus more as a man, a social-religious revolutionary and a political radical. I don't look on him as God, or even as the son of God, so its a little less biased (at least in my humble opinion...which we all know is rarely humble.)

The Madjai said...

I always had an inkling that J was Jewish.

Ang said...

what do you think happens to the unbelievers when the world ends? or is that a monothestic thought to even have?

Chuck Carlson said...

sigh...I am going to keep this short, cause this bores and frustrates me to no end. Plus I am going to try to not be a dick, cause some people take it too seriously and are too sensitive about hearing anything other than what their pastor told them is right and what they have come to believe. Not that there are any of those here, but this is more of a general diatribe than a message prepared for this audience. Do you think our all holy messiah David Karesh would adjust his true and right message to accomodate a conversation with the average passer by on the street?

I am writing on the offensive cause it is the most enjoyable so I am not neccessarily addressing anyone in particular it is more of an attack on an imaginary audience.

here it is:

(I picture me bursting in on a bible study in an upscale midwesten parish, flaming sword lifted high, and tounge forked.)

Number One! There is no design, there is no ultimate higher being that we can verify. If there was a 'perfect' god there would be no people cause we arent' perfect. There are people...therefore....

(and don't give me that 'God would be lonely without us' bullshit. We suck, admit that much, you self loathing life haters.)

Number Two! There is no upper middle class American Christian, it is an oxymoron. Paying 20,000 a year for a Christian education is not christian.

It is impossible to be a real Christian and own a car. it just doesn't fit the message, and if you manipulate the message which you all seem to be doing (refer to nick's rabbi stories to show why this is bad, [refer to outdated vagueness in only source of truth for Christian, aka Bible, to show why it is impossible to do otherwise]) and live as a 'Christian' working to get rich and buy shit then you are focusing on the wrong parts of the new testament and throwing around the Jesus name like it meant something to you.

Number Three! Why nobody really chooses to be a Christian?

This is where I sorta back nick up on something he said. The truth of the matter is that it just isn't practical to live a Christian life in today's society. Ethically, pragmatically, and some other ly's it is just different from the way that we want to think and act. It is fundamentally opposed to our social morays. It is outdated.

You can say that it shouldn't be and try to bring it back but it doesn't work, it doesn't fit anymore. To actually live the teachings of jesus is frowned upon even by the church, which is a buisness. Thats if you could get some people to actually agree on what that message is outside of how it would most benefit the interpretor at the time that they refer to it as truth. And due in combination with nobody knows for sure what the message is, and the 'real' message or at least parts of it no longer fit in our thinking is why nobody does actually follow all of the teachings. You can say you do, cause your pastor/priest says you do, but your just living the bastardized American/Christianity that makes the rest of the world hate us as self righteous and pompous pricks that think they are sent from God to be the richest and have the most shit.

Now take your Christian 2000 dollar computers and tell me what is so wrong with just admitting that it is not american to be Christian. And either giving up your nationalistic 'hate the other guy' beliefs, or giving up your Christian 'Truths' cause the mixture of the two is destroying the world.

the end


Thats it I am done. (lady coughs, 13 yr old touches himself, I blink)


Long live Paley!! (then I set one of those cheap smoke bombs from fourth of july on the floor and light it and wait a second while everyone stares, then as it starts letting out a thin band of blue smoke I make my veiled exit from the discussion group, which is really just a foggy version of me picking up my backpack and sneaking to the door)

(some guy yells that I forgot my scarf, but I leave it, cause it wasn't mine anyway)

Ang said...

it is your bias that you think there is no such thing as god and i'm not here tell or convince you otherwise ... this world is composed of many different types of people, all with their own ideas on the topic and all with different perceptions of their religions. it is however, part of my duty as a person, as a christian, as someone who cares enough for the sactity of your life to open your mind to the possiblity that life does exsist outside our measley little worlds.
you are right .. the bible has flaws, ofcourse it does it WAS written by humans .. and i'm totally understanding and accepting of that fact .. but there is legitamacy to it as well. check out http://www.imja.com/Archeology.html if you get a second.

Now onto Point #1 of mr. rabidwoodchuck's comment (and i dont mean to be subjecting you .. but i just want to clear up some of what i'm thinking by going over what you have had to say): There is no design, there is no ultimate higher being that we can verify. If there was a 'perfect' god there would be no people cause we arent' perfect.

How do you know there is no design? What makes one person the authority on the matter? (and you're right, who makes me the authority either) Why can't one open his/her mind to the possiblity that there may be a design? I've questioned my faith many times with the same questions...but i'm just wondering how come its not possible to at least fancy the thought, or have you?
and No, we can't verify the higher being..that's the point of faith .. or if you've had some miraculous expeirence .. and i konw it seems ridiculous the idea of believing in something that you can't see ... but its a little on the lines of love...you can't see that? but we marry, how do you know its love? how can you be for sure? i think its the same with god when you are a christian...
and then we come to..if there was a perfect god how come there are people comment becuase why would we have to be perfect? god never said WE would be perfect ... and besides the point..how boring would that be? if we were all perfect, i'd imagine we'd all have to conform to god's idea of perfection, which in return would make us, i suppose, all look and act like jesus...and if that were the case, we'd all walk around doing the same exact things at the same exact times...becasue perfection would be in unison and really ... what would be the point of that? isn't life all about learning and growing and individulization and making choices based on free will?

Point 2: There is no upper middle class American Christian, it is an oxymoron. Paying 20,000 a year for a Christian education is not christian.

There are many different kinds of american christians...so because we pay 20 grand a year for a christian education that makes us not christians? christians can't have money? i think that's news to most christians... when did that concept start surfing around? the bible doesn't say we can't have money ... it says we shouldn't hoard it, we shouldn't place it above god, we shouldn't worship it ... the bible knows that money is a necissity but if someone is in need, and you have money to spare, then share the wealth. can you imagine what our society would be like if everyone forgave our debts? that is what god is saying ... that is what the bible teaches. Its that money is wrong and that its bad .. its only how we use it and how we view it .. and there are many many lessons to be learned with it.

ok. i have to stop becuase an unfortunate circumstance has just presented itself to me, and i've just lost all my trains of thought right now...perhaps i'll come back to this, and perhaps i wont. sigh. but i do have to go.